May 31, 2008 by bill.buckley.

I was recently playing in a cash game where the players usually hold back on showing thier cards and qucikly muck if they are the losing hand.  I had a hand where I clearly got conterfited and elected to show my cards first when they were doing their normal holding back.   I flipped them over annoucing I had pocket 7s (not saying anything else about the hand).  The dealer picking up quickly the 7s were counterfited, without waiting to see if others would show thier hand announced my hand as  Queens and 8’s with a 7 kicker,  it appeared to me she was doing this to keep other players from volunteerly mucking thier hand.  I do not feel I did anything ethically wrong in annoucing my hand since I did not try in any way try to announce I won.  My question is what is the dealers responsiblity in this situation.  Should she have aided the other people in reading the hand before they showed, or waited until they either showed or mucked before specifying my actual hand.  Since I was conterfited and another player then showed thier card they out kicked me and won the bet. 

A related situation also happened on another day in a tournement.  Player A had A 7, Player B had A 3 the river was A Q 8 8 J (another counterfit situation - this time resulting in a split pot).  Player A showed his hand (A 7),   Player B then showed he had and A but not realizing  the counterfit situation left the other card turned face down, made a comment about being outkicked  and pushed them forwared and released them.  In this case it was other players that realized the counterfit situation and told player B to turn over the other card, Player B confused by the two or three players telling him this did nothing, but a third player (player C not in the hand) reached forword picked up player Bs downed card, showing it and announcing the split pot).  The dealer then commenced to divide up the pot and award it to both player A and player B, while player A was telling the dealer he did not think that  should be correct but that player As cards should be considered a muck.  After awarding the pot and starting to rifle the deck the dealer then acknowledge back to player A that he was probably right but it was too late to fix it.  However, most of the other players probably did not hear this since there was still a lot of discussion going on with player B to help him understand why it was a split pot.   What should the outcome of this hand been?

Thanks

Bill

Posted in Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Fouled Hands, Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Dealers Responsibilities, Errors, Partial Faults, Etc., Incorrect Pot Awards, Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc. | Print | 8 Comments »

May 30, 2008 by 0490.

Just need clarification.

 No limit hold’em.  Blinds 25/50.  After the flop Player A bets 200.  Player B announces raise.  Is the minimum amount he must place in the pot 350 or 400?  The question came up because someone at the table said that Player A’s bet was a raise of 150 over the minimum bet.

Posted in Bets, Min Raise, StringBet, Fwd Motion, Act Out-Of-Turn | Print | 3 Comments »

May 26, 2008 by Rising300.

Ok, here is what happened:

I am called over, player A raises, player B grabs a stack of $25 chips, starts moving forward with chips to call this bet, and then really quickly Player C reraises, at this point, I’m sure he’s thinking “heck no” so he quickly pulls back his bet (which was about semi completed) and mucks his hand. I am called over.

The hand was mixed into the muck, so I said “well you made a motion to call, he is acting on behalf that he thinks you are calling, so I have to make you put in the $300″ However, I had him whisper his hand to me, and i looked in the muck, and found them to be the bottom two cards.

I don’t like to dig in the muck, but our rule says “if there is a misunderstanding, i can dig in the muck and retrieve a hand”. Player B kinda was the culprit here as he started to call, but didn’t drop say the last batch of greens, and then when player C reacts on it, he quickly takes it back.

I got lucky in this situation as his hand, the 8,5 of clubs were the bottom two cards in the muck. Did I open up a can of worms on this ruling? The dealer told me that he started to cut out chips, wasn’t quiet done and then quickly retracted.

Posted in Chip Counts of Pot & Opponents Stacks, Gross Misunderstandings, Underbets, etc, Bets, Min Raise, StringBet, Fwd Motion, Act Out-Of-Turn, Texas Holdem | Print | 3 Comments »

May 24, 2008 by coldtalk.

This has happened in cash game.Player A is all in on the flop and there is a two calls from B nad C.On turn B bets 100 euro and C raise 100.B calls and on the river B bets 100 again,C raise 400 and B fold.The flop is :A,2,4 turn is 5 and river is 8.When B folds C throw his cards in front of him but over the line and and one cards hit the burn cards but on the top of the burn cards,not mixed.After that player A asks for a fold and in moment dealer is telling the C that there is an another player in game and C says that he has not seen the player A cards because he did cover his cards with the money wanted to change in chips.First card that is in front of him C turns an it is a 3 and then the dealer turns the other card which is an 7.Still A wants to be declared as a fold and he refuse to open his cards.Inspector has decided after a video check and after a long talking and trying to split the main pot between two of the them,and A still insisting on fold and C waiting for a decision that is a fold and gave the pot to player A.Player C says that he has not seen his cards and that he has no reason to fold.

My opinion is that I will not give the pot to player A and ask for him to show the cards and if it is a winning hand than it is ok.I would like you an opinion of what would be a good decision.

Posted in Fouled Hands, Incorrect Pot Awards, Collusion, Cheating, Etc., Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Table Layouts, Betting Lines, Etc., Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Bets, Min Raise, StringBet, Fwd Motion, Act Out-Of-Turn, Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc., Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Texas Holdem | Print | 2 Comments »

May 23, 2008 by pokerfish.

I was playing in a home tournament when the following occurred. I was in the cutoff, blinds at 200-400. 3 limpers from early position and then the player in the hijack seat limps. I make it 3,000 to go from the cutoff. As I look up at the dealer he has put the deck of cards on the table and is having a conversation with the UTG player oblivious to what is happening. The 3 early position limpers fold and the guy sitting across from the dealer, not realizing that the hijack seat has not acted yet, picks up the deck and deals out the flop and turn (rabbit hunting). I had A-Q in the cutoff and the hijack seat who had not acted turns up A-3. The flop was A-2-A and the turn was a 3. No one was sure what to do. I ended up pulling back my 3,000 raise and the hijack seat and I split what was in the pot from the blinds/limpers. Did we do the right thing? I can’t see how the hijack seat player could be allowed to put 3,000 in the pot and claim it after the flop and turn were dealt by another player rabbit hunting.

Posted in Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Fouled Hands, Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc., Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties, Misdeals | Print | 2 Comments »

May 21, 2008 by lnufnu.

I was in a tournament the other day when player A declares she is all-in and pushes her chips forward.  Player B (the only other player still in the hand) states, “I guess if you’re all-in (emphasis in the tone of his voice when stating the words “ALL-IN”) then I am all-out.”  Player B then throws his cards into the muck pile.  The dealer told player B that he had declared “All-in” and retrieved his cards and turned them over.  Player B told the dealer that he never said that he was all-in and repeated what he had originally stated.  The dealer said that he said the words “all-in” and told him that was his ruling. 

Player B obviously became very upset.  Everyone at the table, including Player A, all told the dealer that player B was right and that he never declared that he was all-in.  The dealer called the TD over.  After hearing both sides the TD made a ruling that since player B said the words, “all-in” that he was in fact all-in and made him put his chips out.  Obviously, player A won the hand and player B lost his mind.

Any thoughts on this?

Posted in Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold, All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties | Print | 4 Comments »

May 19, 2008 by monodono.

Recently I had a debate with another dealer, about verbal declarations & we got to “I bet the pot”, my friend said in tournament play you’re not allowed to declare “I bet the pot” because the dealer should never count the pot. I said the only exception is when a player verbally declares “I bet the pot” in which the dealer should count the pot and any bets that have been previously wagered to determine the size of the bet. (we play with bet line rules) What are the proper guide lines on this in the TDA ?

Posted in Gross Misunderstandings, Underbets, etc, Limit, No-Limit, Pot Limit, Bets, Min Raise, StringBet, Fwd Motion, Act Out-Of-Turn | Print | 9 Comments »

May 19, 2008 by frenchflush.

I know you will think: “what a big mess” but this situation really happened in a big club (used to host the WPT): the “Aviation Club de France” and during the “Grand Prix de Paris” (link here : http://www.aviationclubdefrance.com/home_uk.html).

OK to make it simple: after a Break they close a table … player A (with 25000) find a ticket sending him to a new place with 50000 … A just seats & start playing … he plays 4 hands during wich he eliminate player X (famous) wich had let’s say 40000 … player A have now 90000 … then player B is coming back (late but it’s his right) from the break and claim for this seat (in fact the organisators really made a mistake with the ticket of A: he should never have been moved to this 50000 place wich really was the place of B) … the three players (together with X) call for the floor (poor man lol) … after half an hour of decisions:   PLAYER X IS DECLARED ELIMINATED (I agree) - PLAYERS A&B ARE SENT TO THEIR ORIGINAL SEATS (25000 & 50000) but on TV nobody understood what became the 40000 of benefits … we understood it was divided between A & B (???) … On my opinion: I WOULD HAVE RETIRED THE 40000 FROM THE TOURNAMENT (X would be eliminated but A could’nt get profit from a move made with another one’s stack!)!

Any idea?

GG

Posted in Incorrect Pot Awards, Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Collusion, Cheating, Etc., Chip Counts of Pot & Opponents Stacks, Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Start Chips, Blind Raising Structure, Tourney Timing, Color-Ups & Chip Races, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties, Registration, Buy-Ins, & Awards, Empty Seats, Penalties, Clocks, Ejected Players, Money & Chips | Print | 3 Comments »

May 19, 2008 by Rising300.

Ok, the blinds are 2000/4000, and they have been for at least 10 minutes. This is the final table of a $150 buy in tournament. On the river, player A leads out and bets 2000, and player B (the only 2 people in the pot) calls the 2000 quickly. The dealer says “whoa, you gotta bet the minimum, 4000″ The guy says he would not have called the 4000. It’s pretty clear we have to make Player A bet the minimum of 4000, but with player B do you:

A) make him call the 4000. “Sir, it’s everyone’s responsibility to know that the blinds are 2000/4000, and you cannot call a 2000 bet. You call the entire amount.

or

B) The 2000 stays in the pot, I will let you complete the bet to 4000 and call and have a chance to win, or you sacrifice the 2000 with no chance at winning the pot.

I suppose you can go either way, but I made him complete the bet to 4000 and he called it and lost.

Posted in Gross Misunderstandings, Underbets, etc, All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Money & Chips, Bets, Min Raise, StringBet, Fwd Motion, Act Out-Of-Turn | Print | 1 Comment »

May 16, 2008 by wiredaces14.

Just need some clarification here:   I would like the general ruling, but I will give you the specific situation: 2000/4000 blindsPlayer A raises to 12000Player B re-raises to 26000 (thinking from his judgement that is enough to put A all in)Player A puts all of his chips in the pot. Player B: shows his Aces without acting on the remaining 1000 chips (that he thought were already covered)Player A has the floor called in order to weasel out of his rough position in the hand. After the hand I was told that the WSOP will be killing hands in this instance this year, is this true?  Will this be TDA procedure as well? Or was this a fabrication? 

Posted in Fouled Hands, Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Incorrect Pot Awards, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc | Print | 3 Comments »