June 30, 2008 by Deadman.

Hello,

 There was a bit of a disagreement at a recent tournament regarding exposure of cards with action pending. Clearly the TDA rules and Robert’s Rules indicate this will not result in a dead hand. However, players at the table, at least two of which had just come back from the 2008 WSOP early events, stated that the WSOP has now indicated that any card exposed (1 or both) with action pending, will result in an immediate dead hand.

 Typically, I follow TDA and Robert’s Rules for the games I run, as I feel that the televised nature and scale of the WSOP creates some need for unique rulings in favor of viewership. Regardless, I searched the WSOP official site to verify this, but everything I found indicates that the WSOP subscribes to the standard TDA ruling, as listed below. Can anyone tell me if there is something I am missing, or if perhaps they called an “audible” for this year’s events and in fact they are now ruling prematurely exposed cards a dead hand?

 http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/pdfs/wsop.tournament-rules.08.pdf

50. A player exposing his or her cards with action pending may incur a penalty, but will not have a dead hand. The penalty will begin at the end of the hand. All players at the table are entitled to see the exposed card(s), if requested. A penalty may also be imposed if a player throws a card off the table, violates the one-player-to-a-hand rule or engages in similar behavior. Penalties will be invoked in cases of soft-play, abuse or disruptive behavior. All penalties will be imposed at Harrah’s sole and absolute discretion, in accordance with Rule No. 51.

51. In its sole and absolute discretion, Harrah’s may impose penalties that include verbal warnings and missed-hand penalties. A missed-hand penalty will be assessed as follows: The offender will miss one hand for each player at the table, including the offender, when the penalty is given, multiplied by the number of rounds specified in the penalty. Tournament staff can assess one-, two-, three- or four-round penalties or disqualification. Players who receive a missed-hand penalty must remain outside the designated tournament areas for the length of their penalty. The player must notify the tournament staff prior to returning to their seat. Repeat infractions are subject to escalating penalties up to disqualification.

Thanks so much,

Deadman

Posted in House Rules Different from Standard, Proposed New Rules, Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Fouled Hands, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties | Print | 4 Comments »

June 28, 2008 by emgee.

Here is the situation.. “friendly” sit & go. On the turn player A  is first to act, and Pushes all in, Player B, the only other player with a hand beats player A into the pot. Player B right away turns up his hand, showing trip kings. Player A (who is in seat 10 next to the dealer) puts his cards face down towards the dealer and releases them… saying a less friendly version of “Darn it”. Dealer Continues to put out the river card which is a Jack, at which point Player A reaches out to his cards that the dealer had not touched, and brings them back in to turn over Pocket Jacks. Pot is awarded top Player A with a full house JJJKK.  My question is this: Was it correct to rule that the Jacks were recoverable and not folded after they were placed face down towards the dealer. they had not hit the muck. Should the dealer have mucked the cards after they were placed in from of her? Should the river have been dealt after the apparent fold? Personally I think the pot was awarded correctly, but Player B had some questions about this.  If this had been a situation where player A had to call a bet, his actions were clearly a fold. But in this case, there is no reason to fold as all the chips are in the pot. (Player A had a few more chips than player B, though I don’t think the effects the action… I seems to be as long as the players cards were recoverable, that recovering them was the right thing to do. Thoughts? thanksemgee 

Posted in Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold, Dealers Responsibilities, Errors, Partial Faults, Etc., Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc | Print | 2 Comments »

June 24, 2008 by frenchflush.

Hello, A friend of mine was playing a 2008 event when this happened to him:

Someone raised a pot going 3200 … my friend who didn’t noticed that (his own fault) said “1300″ (the amount he wanted to bet but under by more than 50% of the previous bet) … the floor came and ruled that my friend could choose between calling or folding BUT THE 1300 CHIPS WILL STAY ANYWAY IN THE POT!?!

I know this rule is applied in some casinos but didn’t know it was used in a major international tournament!?

 GG

Posted in Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold, House Rules Different from Standard, Gross Misunderstandings, Underbets, etc, Substantial Action, Bets, Min Raise, StringBet, Fwd Motion, Act Out-Of-Turn | Print | 4 Comments »

June 24, 2008 by coldtalk.

Recently we had a discussion about raises and all in situation. Main issue was if one player (A) bets 200 $ and next one (B) goes all in 290 $, does this opens the betting for third player (C) and could he raise A, or only to call 290. My opinion is that there is a option for a C to raise an A because he must have an option to raise, to call, or to fold, since he had not played anything. What would be the right decision? I am aware of minimum raises and all in situation but this is for me a bit illogically that if a player is on turn to play that he has not an all options.

Posted in All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Bets, Min Raise, StringBet, Fwd Motion, Act Out-Of-Turn, Texas Holdem | Print | 12 Comments »

June 23, 2008 by frenchflush.

Even if there are numerous situations possible around this act (and so numerous rulings) … how do you regard the act of throwing the cards in the middle of the table face up IN ITSELF? FOLDING?

Like the kind of situation at the river with two players left in a pot of 500 :

A (stack of 500) bets 100 … B (stack of 500) goes all-in for 500 (a bluff) … A thought it was a call and throws his cards faces up in the middle … B then says that A folded & throw his own cards in the middle faces up claiming the pot … “floooor!” 

 Do not try to know the way B declared his all-in raise (it was not loud but clear enought for the dealer) … just let’s try to translate the act of throwing the cards faces up in the middle …

GG

Posted in Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold, Fouled Hands, All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties | Print | 3 Comments »

June 19, 2008 by coldtalk.

Tournament situation. Two tables both with six players playing and waiting to create a final table with ten players. Dealer is dealing the cards, small and big blind placed. At same time on the other table dealer is announced ALL IN, and for players at the same time get of the table to see the game, including the players from the blinds. Player who is UTG and next one folds immediately. The cards are folded from the players who are not at the table following the order. Coming to the SM and fold him to, took the chips and placed it front the BB. I must add that UTG and next one are fold soon as they get they both cards and seen them, so they are in the muck when the dealer is finishing of dealing.We have a rule which is: if the player is not at the table his hand is fold. But what about situation when we have only two present players at the table and they fold they cards when was they time to play. Is the hand of SM and BB also fold?Who then gets the chips? I am not sure what would be a general rule for this and what does the Robert’s rule says about situation like this and I would like an opinion about this also-if the all hands of players who are not at the table folded at the same time without to wait an order then is it possible for a player who is last fold and who is last also on the table to win the chips. Two players only at the table present. This all happened very fast. Please, what would be a general rule or is it a rule that if the no ones matches the amount can not win a pot.

Posted in All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Late Registration, Missing Players Etc, Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Buttons & Blinds, Seating & Moving Players | Print | 4 Comments »

June 19, 2008 by bill.buckley.

Hi the TDA rules used to be pretty clear of who can play when moving from other positions.  It used to say A player being moved will be able to play if moved to any position other than between the dealer and the small blind. Hence he could play if he was moved into the button position, little blind or bing blind.  The latest rules for rules from roberts rule don’t specify this clearly but do say that a ‘new’ player can not sit down between the dealer and the big blind (the way it is written makes it sound like it is for people new to cash games).  What is the most popular rule for tournements?  Also if a person at a cash table and misses the big blind (stepped away to answer phone  or smooke), if he returns prior to his small blind will most places let him post 3 chips (small and big) and play from the small blind position (and then take the dealer position) or must he sit out the  small blind position and wait for the button to pass before posting the 3 chips (small and big blind).

Thanks

Bill

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Posted in Late Registration, Missing Players Etc, Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Buttons & Blinds, Seating & Moving Players | Print | 3 Comments »

June 9, 2008 by DHA.

Hello Everyone, I am going to upgrade our site in the next few weeks.  There may be periods of outage for this blog, but I will try to keep it to minumum.  Its important for everyone to backup any blogs they may want to keep.   I will try to keep everything but sometimes **** happens.

- Webmaster

Posted in Uncategorized | Print | No Comments »

June 2, 2008 by dealem.

Is saying “I have to call” the same as saying “call” when it is your turn to act? Or could saying “I have to call” be taken as thinking out loud?

Posted in Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold | Print | 2 Comments »