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« out of turn betting | When you pause the tournament? »

Ultimate folding a winning hand case.

Hello,

Let’s try to find a “regular” solution about this kind of case (knowing we will allways have to make special decisions):

NLH tournament - 5 players at the turn - pot 700 - player A goes all-in for 500 - B, C & D folds - A (forgetting E) throws his cards faces down in the middle - the dealer reach it quickly before it touch anything (to save it & give it back to A) while E is saying “I call” and push his chips in the middle - E pretend that A folded & ask for the floor … E made absoluely nothing meaning a fold befora A made his mistake … for information : A has the winning hand at 100% (E is drawing dead) …

For me the important point is that A is all-in (if not it would be more simple) … but I hate to have a player eliminated on a stupid error … anyway I’m ready to listen for some of your straight opinion with respect & apply it: should the players be protected or put into their responsabilities of adults … this is the real question!).

Your opinion ?

This entry was posted on August 29, 2008 at 8:38 am and is filed under All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold, Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Heads Up Play, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Bets, Min Raise, StringBet, Fwd Motion, Act Out-Of-Turn. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

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2 Responses to “Ultimate folding a winning hand case.”

  1. JustinFromTulsa says:
    August 29, 2008 at 1:32 pm

    The fact that player A’s cards have not touched the muck makes this a fairly simple call: his cards are live. I will not ever rule this hand dead and will almost never give player E his money back; he called and lost, my apologies if you were trying to shoot an angle.

    It is still rather simple if they touch the muck, but this is where your discretion comes into play. Player A bets and players B, C and D fold. BEFORE player E acts, player A mucks his hand (cards actually touch the muck pile) and then player E calls the bet expecting to win. I will almost never retrieve player A’s hand, and will award the pot to player E. Your discretion comes in as to whether you will give player A his last bet back or not. If he has gone all-in and will be eliminated I would be more inclined to give player A his last bet back. If I look at player E’s hand and he has called with trash I might be inclined to return player A’s last bet as well, with the main pot, in both cases, going to player E. Sorry player A, you have to pay attention.

    It would get tricky if something induced player A to fold his hand, like the dealer starts pushing the pot to player A or if player E had his cards hidden behind stacks of chips.

  2. b_vegas says:
    September 11, 2008 at 12:26 pm

    if the cards are clear. i.e. they are never put into the muck, give them back and let the best hand play. why would you allow someone the opportunity to take a shot. E is only calling to try to take a shot at player A. i understand that player A should protect his hand, but TD’s are there to insure the integrity of the tournament, and if you allow players to take shots at each other, where is the integrity?

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