December 11, 2008 by MrVickers.

We had this happen in our room and I would like to know what the correct decision should have been.  As the dealer was bringing out the turn card it bent on the table in such a way that it somehow sprung off the table and onto the floor.  Would this card still be live?  What would be the ruling if it were one of the flop cards or river cards?

Thanks

Posted in Dealers Responsibilities, Errors, Partial Faults, Etc., Fouled Decks, Missing Cards, etc., Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc., Misdeals | Print | 2 Comments »

November 5, 2008 by coldtalk.

Tournament.Player A raise preflop 4000 chips on blinds 1000-2000. Only one player calls.The flop come out A,Q,4 and player A goes all-in 13 000. At the moment no floor or TD is present,and player B says that he is not folding and opens his cards holding AK. Player A makes a facial expression like : a great hand, a strong one. Immediately after that Player B says I call, but few other players objects and there is a bit confusion for dealer is that call by the rule and A opens his cards holding AQ. How to solve this situation?

Posted in Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold, Dealers Responsibilities, Errors, Partial Faults, Etc., Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Collusion, Cheating, Etc., All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties | Print | 5 Comments »

September 25, 2008 by lincolini.

2 players take a flop. A bets and B folds. A flashes his cards to the player who folded. He is at the other end of the table so most players (if not everyone) sees the card. The dealer follows his usual procedure and tables the hand making sure all players see exposed hand. At this point player A get very upset becuase he says he only showed one card to the table (he held one card in front of the other so the second was not visible).

 So my question is this: did the dealer make a mistake? It is his responsibility to ensure he knows what card was exposed? Should he ask the player in question what was shown, or what is the players own fault for not protecting his hand? Obviously no action can be taken to correct the mistake (if there was one) but what should happen in future when the dealer knows a player has shown part of his hand but does not know which card?

Posted in Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Collusion, Cheating, Etc., Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties | Print | 1 Comment »

August 17, 2008 by lnufnu.

I was dealing a rather large Texas Hold’em tournament the other night and I ran into a huge mistake that I made.  The scenario was as follows:

Blinds were 25-50 (rather early in the tournament).  Player A (seat 9) was under-the-gun and has pocket Queens and raises to a total of 300.  Player in seat 10 folds and Player B (seat 1) calls (Player B has pocket 7’s).  Everyone else folds and player in seat 8 says to Player A, “Oh, you won the pot!”  I, as the dealer, listening to what player in seat 8 said and totally forgetting that player B had called, moved all the chips to player A and threw all the remaining cards into the muck pile.  Player B says, “Hey, I called.  Why did you throw the rest of the cards into the muck pile?”  Realizing I had made a huge mistake and that legal action had already taken place I took all the cards, including those that were in the original muck card pile (since there was no way that I was able to determine what cards were what), re-shuffled, and brought out a burn card and the flop.  The flop included a 7 and Player A’s Queens were cracked.  Player A went all in and, of course, Player B called.  Player A was eliminated from the tournament.

Was I correct, regardless of human error?  If not, please tell me the correct way to correct this “MAJOR MISTAKE!!!”

Posted in Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Fouled Decks, Missing Cards, etc., Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold, Dealers Responsibilities, Errors, Partial Faults, Etc., Fouled Hands, Incorrect Pot Awards, Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc., Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Misdeals | Print | 1 Comment »

August 4, 2008 by frenchflush.

Hello,

Here is again this typical situation:

Tournament - Two players left at the river: player A (on the left of the Dealer, place 1 or 2 and near the muck) raises … B takes is time and speaks a lot to try to guess A’s hand (but no move or no sound meaning a fold) … A imagining a fold (?) throws away his cards directly in the muck (!!!) … B pretend it’s a fold and claim for the pot (he had enought chips t pay the raise) … … … my ruling: because the amount was important for A (more than 50% of his stack) so for “the best interest of the game” and because for me a raiser can’t suddenly fold without being protected: I asked him for the exact cards and finded it quite quickly over the top of the muck: nearly the nuts! I gave him a warning (for playing out of turn creating a confusing situation) but exposed his hand alive while letting B decide to play free! Lot’s of complain from B … should I have killed A’s hand?

GG

Posted in Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold, Fouled Hands, Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties | Print | 8 Comments »

July 29, 2008 by g3rt.

hell0!

 first i’d like to apologize for my bad english, my native language is swiss german, i hope, you can understand me.

following scene occured yesterday night in a single table sng:

it was self-dealining. the dealer threw one player’s holecard face up. Someone said ’Let’s make this the burn card and continue dealing’. No one objected. But after the deal was complete, the dealer didn’t put the face up card on the top of the deck - he left it face up on the table. During the the pre-flop betting round nobody requested to put it on top of the deck, so that it could take its function as a burn card.
At the end of the preflop round, the dealer burned the top card and started dealing the flop when several players yelled out:”stop, you must not burn a card”. they wanted to discard the third flop card and put the burn card face up. I said, that everything is alright the way it is, because the face card wasn’t on top of the deck, so it wasn’t a burn card. therefore the dealer is right to burn another card.
everybody besides the dealer disagreed with me.
later on, i found out, that they do it always like that. they just call the misdealed card a burn card, but they don’t use it as one, they keep them face up one the table. I think this is so, because almost nobody seems to actually understand why the top card of the deck has to be burned.

my question is: was it still right to claim that the top card should be burned? what do you think about this situation?

An answer would be very appreciated, as I’m still rather irritated.

Posted in Dealers Responsibilities, Errors, Partial Faults, Etc., Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc., Uncategorized | Print | 6 Comments »

July 8, 2008 by hobbit56.

During a no limit cash game I was asked to see a folded hand. The request came from a 2 players not invoved in the hand. I ruled that since they were not in the hand they could not ask to see the other players cards. After my ruling the other player left in the hand asked to see the cards to which I agreed. Afterward one of the original requesters stated that the rules had changed recently and I should verify whether my ruling was correct. Since I have not heard and can not find anything anywhere else I would appreciate any input. Thank You.

Posted in Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Dealers Responsibilities, Errors, Partial Faults, Etc., Collusion, Cheating, Etc., Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties | Print | 2 Comments »

June 30, 2008 by Deadman.

Hello,

 There was a bit of a disagreement at a recent tournament regarding exposure of cards with action pending. Clearly the TDA rules and Robert’s Rules indicate this will not result in a dead hand. However, players at the table, at least two of which had just come back from the 2008 WSOP early events, stated that the WSOP has now indicated that any card exposed (1 or both) with action pending, will result in an immediate dead hand.

 Typically, I follow TDA and Robert’s Rules for the games I run, as I feel that the televised nature and scale of the WSOP creates some need for unique rulings in favor of viewership. Regardless, I searched the WSOP official site to verify this, but everything I found indicates that the WSOP subscribes to the standard TDA ruling, as listed below. Can anyone tell me if there is something I am missing, or if perhaps they called an “audible” for this year’s events and in fact they are now ruling prematurely exposed cards a dead hand?

 http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/pdfs/wsop.tournament-rules.08.pdf

50. A player exposing his or her cards with action pending may incur a penalty, but will not have a dead hand. The penalty will begin at the end of the hand. All players at the table are entitled to see the exposed card(s), if requested. A penalty may also be imposed if a player throws a card off the table, violates the one-player-to-a-hand rule or engages in similar behavior. Penalties will be invoked in cases of soft-play, abuse or disruptive behavior. All penalties will be imposed at Harrah’s sole and absolute discretion, in accordance with Rule No. 51.

51. In its sole and absolute discretion, Harrah’s may impose penalties that include verbal warnings and missed-hand penalties. A missed-hand penalty will be assessed as follows: The offender will miss one hand for each player at the table, including the offender, when the penalty is given, multiplied by the number of rounds specified in the penalty. Tournament staff can assess one-, two-, three- or four-round penalties or disqualification. Players who receive a missed-hand penalty must remain outside the designated tournament areas for the length of their penalty. The player must notify the tournament staff prior to returning to their seat. Repeat infractions are subject to escalating penalties up to disqualification.

Thanks so much,

Deadman

Posted in House Rules Different from Standard, Proposed New Rules, Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Fouled Hands, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties | Print | 4 Comments »

June 28, 2008 by emgee.

Here is the situation.. “friendly” sit & go. On the turn player A  is first to act, and Pushes all in, Player B, the only other player with a hand beats player A into the pot. Player B right away turns up his hand, showing trip kings. Player A (who is in seat 10 next to the dealer) puts his cards face down towards the dealer and releases them… saying a less friendly version of “Darn it”. Dealer Continues to put out the river card which is a Jack, at which point Player A reaches out to his cards that the dealer had not touched, and brings them back in to turn over Pocket Jacks. Pot is awarded top Player A with a full house JJJKK.  My question is this: Was it correct to rule that the Jacks were recoverable and not folded after they were placed face down towards the dealer. they had not hit the muck. Should the dealer have mucked the cards after they were placed in from of her? Should the river have been dealt after the apparent fold? Personally I think the pot was awarded correctly, but Player B had some questions about this.  If this had been a situation where player A had to call a bet, his actions were clearly a fold. But in this case, there is no reason to fold as all the chips are in the pot. (Player A had a few more chips than player B, though I don’t think the effects the action… I seems to be as long as the players cards were recoverable, that recovering them was the right thing to do. Thoughts? thanksemgee 

Posted in Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold, Dealers Responsibilities, Errors, Partial Faults, Etc., Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc | Print | 2 Comments »

June 23, 2008 by frenchflush.

Even if there are numerous situations possible around this act (and so numerous rulings) … how do you regard the act of throwing the cards in the middle of the table face up IN ITSELF? FOLDING?

Like the kind of situation at the river with two players left in a pot of 500 :

A (stack of 500) bets 100 … B (stack of 500) goes all-in for 500 (a bluff) … A thought it was a call and throws his cards faces up in the middle … B then says that A folded & throw his own cards in the middle faces up claiming the pot … “floooor!” 

 Do not try to know the way B declared his all-in raise (it was not loud but clear enought for the dealer) … just let’s try to translate the act of throwing the cards faces up in the middle …

GG

Posted in Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold, Fouled Hands, All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties | Print | 3 Comments »