August 17, 2008 by lnufnu.

I was dealing a rather large Texas Hold’em tournament the other night and I ran into a huge mistake that I made.  The scenario was as follows:

Blinds were 25-50 (rather early in the tournament).  Player A (seat 9) was under-the-gun and has pocket Queens and raises to a total of 300.  Player in seat 10 folds and Player B (seat 1) calls (Player B has pocket 7’s).  Everyone else folds and player in seat 8 says to Player A, “Oh, you won the pot!”  I, as the dealer, listening to what player in seat 8 said and totally forgetting that player B had called, moved all the chips to player A and threw all the remaining cards into the muck pile.  Player B says, “Hey, I called.  Why did you throw the rest of the cards into the muck pile?”  Realizing I had made a huge mistake and that legal action had already taken place I took all the cards, including those that were in the original muck card pile (since there was no way that I was able to determine what cards were what), re-shuffled, and brought out a burn card and the flop.  The flop included a 7 and Player A’s Queens were cracked.  Player A went all in and, of course, Player B called.  Player A was eliminated from the tournament.

Was I correct, regardless of human error?  If not, please tell me the correct way to correct this “MAJOR MISTAKE!!!”

Posted in Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Fouled Decks, Missing Cards, etc., Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold, Dealers Responsibilities, Errors, Partial Faults, Etc., Fouled Hands, Incorrect Pot Awards, Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc., Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Misdeals | Print | 1 Comment »

June 23, 2008 by frenchflush.

Even if there are numerous situations possible around this act (and so numerous rulings) … how do you regard the act of throwing the cards in the middle of the table face up IN ITSELF? FOLDING?

Like the kind of situation at the river with two players left in a pot of 500 :

A (stack of 500) bets 100 … B (stack of 500) goes all-in for 500 (a bluff) … A thought it was a call and throws his cards faces up in the middle … B then says that A folded & throw his own cards in the middle faces up claiming the pot … “floooor!” 

 Do not try to know the way B declared his all-in raise (it was not loud but clear enought for the dealer) … just let’s try to translate the act of throwing the cards faces up in the middle …

GG

Posted in Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Verbals, Gestures, & Actions: Bet Raise Fold, Fouled Hands, All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties | Print | 3 Comments »

May 31, 2008 by bill.buckley.

I was recently playing in a cash game where the players usually hold back on showing thier cards and qucikly muck if they are the losing hand.  I had a hand where I clearly got conterfited and elected to show my cards first when they were doing their normal holding back.   I flipped them over annoucing I had pocket 7s (not saying anything else about the hand).  The dealer picking up quickly the 7s were counterfited, without waiting to see if others would show thier hand announced my hand as  Queens and 8’s with a 7 kicker,  it appeared to me she was doing this to keep other players from volunteerly mucking thier hand.  I do not feel I did anything ethically wrong in annoucing my hand since I did not try in any way try to announce I won.  My question is what is the dealers responsiblity in this situation.  Should she have aided the other people in reading the hand before they showed, or waited until they either showed or mucked before specifying my actual hand.  Since I was conterfited and another player then showed thier card they out kicked me and won the bet. 

A related situation also happened on another day in a tournement.  Player A had A 7, Player B had A 3 the river was A Q 8 8 J (another counterfit situation - this time resulting in a split pot).  Player A showed his hand (A 7),   Player B then showed he had and A but not realizing  the counterfit situation left the other card turned face down, made a comment about being outkicked  and pushed them forwared and released them.  In this case it was other players that realized the counterfit situation and told player B to turn over the other card, Player B confused by the two or three players telling him this did nothing, but a third player (player C not in the hand) reached forword picked up player Bs downed card, showing it and announcing the split pot).  The dealer then commenced to divide up the pot and award it to both player A and player B, while player A was telling the dealer he did not think that  should be correct but that player As cards should be considered a muck.  After awarding the pot and starting to rifle the deck the dealer then acknowledge back to player A that he was probably right but it was too late to fix it.  However, most of the other players probably did not hear this since there was still a lot of discussion going on with player B to help him understand why it was a split pot.   What should the outcome of this hand been?

Thanks

Bill

Posted in Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Fouled Hands, Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Dealers Responsibilities, Errors, Partial Faults, Etc., Incorrect Pot Awards, Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc. | Print | 8 Comments »

May 24, 2008 by coldtalk.

This has happened in cash game.Player A is all in on the flop and there is a two calls from B nad C.On turn B bets 100 euro and C raise 100.B calls and on the river B bets 100 again,C raise 400 and B fold.The flop is :A,2,4 turn is 5 and river is 8.When B folds C throw his cards in front of him but over the line and and one cards hit the burn cards but on the top of the burn cards,not mixed.After that player A asks for a fold and in moment dealer is telling the C that there is an another player in game and C says that he has not seen the player A cards because he did cover his cards with the money wanted to change in chips.First card that is in front of him C turns an it is a 3 and then the dealer turns the other card which is an 7.Still A wants to be declared as a fold and he refuse to open his cards.Inspector has decided after a video check and after a long talking and trying to split the main pot between two of the them,and A still insisting on fold and C waiting for a decision that is a fold and gave the pot to player A.Player C says that he has not seen his cards and that he has no reason to fold.

My opinion is that I will not give the pot to player A and ask for him to show the cards and if it is a winning hand than it is ok.I would like you an opinion of what would be a good decision.

Posted in Fouled Hands, Incorrect Pot Awards, Collusion, Cheating, Etc., Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Table Layouts, Betting Lines, Etc., Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Bets, Min Raise, StringBet, Fwd Motion, Act Out-Of-Turn, Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc., Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Texas Holdem | Print | 2 Comments »

May 23, 2008 by pokerfish.

I was playing in a home tournament when the following occurred. I was in the cutoff, blinds at 200-400. 3 limpers from early position and then the player in the hijack seat limps. I make it 3,000 to go from the cutoff. As I look up at the dealer he has put the deck of cards on the table and is having a conversation with the UTG player oblivious to what is happening. The 3 early position limpers fold and the guy sitting across from the dealer, not realizing that the hijack seat has not acted yet, picks up the deck and deals out the flop and turn (rabbit hunting). I had A-Q in the cutoff and the hijack seat who had not acted turns up A-3. The flop was A-2-A and the turn was a 3. No one was sure what to do. I ended up pulling back my 3,000 raise and the hijack seat and I split what was in the pot from the blinds/limpers. Did we do the right thing? I can’t see how the hijack seat player could be allowed to put 3,000 in the pot and claim it after the flop and turn were dealt by another player rabbit hunting.

Posted in Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Fouled Hands, Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc., Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties, Misdeals | Print | 2 Comments »

May 19, 2008 by frenchflush.

I know you will think: “what a big mess” but this situation really happened in a big club (used to host the WPT): the “Aviation Club de France” and during the “Grand Prix de Paris” (link here : http://www.aviationclubdefrance.com/home_uk.html).

OK to make it simple: after a Break they close a table … player A (with 25000) find a ticket sending him to a new place with 50000 … A just seats & start playing … he plays 4 hands during wich he eliminate player X (famous) wich had let’s say 40000 … player A have now 90000 … then player B is coming back (late but it’s his right) from the break and claim for this seat (in fact the organisators really made a mistake with the ticket of A: he should never have been moved to this 50000 place wich really was the place of B) … the three players (together with X) call for the floor (poor man lol) … after half an hour of decisions:   PLAYER X IS DECLARED ELIMINATED (I agree) - PLAYERS A&B ARE SENT TO THEIR ORIGINAL SEATS (25000 & 50000) but on TV nobody understood what became the 40000 of benefits … we understood it was divided between A & B (???) … On my opinion: I WOULD HAVE RETIRED THE 40000 FROM THE TOURNAMENT (X would be eliminated but A could’nt get profit from a move made with another one’s stack!)!

Any idea?

GG

Posted in Incorrect Pot Awards, Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Collusion, Cheating, Etc., Chip Counts of Pot & Opponents Stacks, Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Start Chips, Blind Raising Structure, Tourney Timing, Color-Ups & Chip Races, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties, Registration, Buy-Ins, & Awards, Empty Seats, Penalties, Clocks, Ejected Players, Money & Chips | Print | 3 Comments »

May 16, 2008 by wiredaces14.

Just need some clarification here:   I would like the general ruling, but I will give you the specific situation: 2000/4000 blindsPlayer A raises to 12000Player B re-raises to 26000 (thinking from his judgement that is enough to put A all in)Player A puts all of his chips in the pot. Player B: shows his Aces without acting on the remaining 1000 chips (that he thought were already covered)Player A has the floor called in order to weasel out of his rough position in the hand. After the hand I was told that the WSOP will be killing hands in this instance this year, is this true?  Will this be TDA procedure as well? Or was this a fabrication? 

Posted in Fouled Hands, Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., All-In Bets; Re-Opening Betting, Side-Pots, Split Pots, Incorrect Pot Awards, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc | Print | 3 Comments »

May 14, 2008 by herb.solo.

Hello there. I’m second floorman in an Austrian card room, and two days ago we had a tricky situation in a Hold’em cash-game.

Heads up on the river, Player A makes a bet, B calls, the dealer requests a showdown from A, A slowrolls, and says “i’ve got a pair of threes”. Before he shows his second card, player B shouts “Pair of Queens” and throws his hand into the Board.

Now Player A claims to have a flush, but B says, the Queen of clubs was his card, the Queen on the board was of spades. The dealer can’t remember, which queen was on the board.

So we have three errors in one hand, slowrolling from player A, throwing his wholecards into the board from B, and a dealer who can’t remember the board he dealt. Our ruling was to split the pot, but yesterday my boss said, we should have awarded the pot to one of the players and the dealer should have paid the same amount to the other player out of his pocket, as it’s his responsibility to remember the board.

What’s your opinion on this? And what penalties to you impose in a cash-game for slowrolling / smashing the pot or throwing cards into the board?

Posted in Incorrect Pot Awards, Fouled Hands, Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc. | Print | 3 Comments »

May 8, 2008 by frenchflush.

Hello,

Let’s try to find a ”final” method to rule the dealer worst errors. With “dealer error” I mean the dealer IS THE REAL & ONLY RESPONSABLE WITH THE ERROR and no help can be find with players being “not clear” or things like that!

Let’s go with the famous exemple: on a 6000 pot at the river player A bets 1000 - player B takes is time to act (while doing absolutely NOTHING wrong or nothing meaning a call) - the dealer announce “player B calls” (OBVIOUS ERROR FROM HIM for absolutely unknown reason) - so player A shows is hand (very good but no nuts) - player B ask for the floor because he wanted to raise … !!! ….

We allready treated this case BUT … I really don’t agree with the way it is usually ruled and MORE AND MORE  I decide to SPLIT the pot when the errors ARE CLEARLY coming from the dealers … here is why:  

Doing the error the dealer is clearly penalizing both players who are absolutely innocent and the “usual” ruling on this case allways advantage A or B depending of their hand at this moment. Let’s be more clear:

The traditionnal ruling would be to say that because B can’t play anymore with the advantage of knowing A’s cards … B is declared as only calling … so imagines the two situations:

If B has the winning hand … well … let’s say it’s ok because we can suppose A would have fold (so nothing change for him) or would have called the raise (would had been worth for him) …

If A has the winning hand … terrible for B who can argument (sincerely) that he would have BLUFF RAISE tho save his head on that situation … I REALLY CAN’T STAND SAYING TO HIM THAT THE BETTING ROUND IS SUDDENLY STOPPED BECAUSE OF AN DEALER ERROR … TAKING AWAY FROM HIM ANY CHANCE TO WIN THE POT ANYMORE! And don’t tell me about a “minimum raise permitted”: it would never work here as a bluff raise! In the other hand you can answer me that A would have paid any bluff raise from B ! … well … so …

I split the pot (and do it more & more often when the errors come ONLY & CLEARLY from my dealers)!

I will wait for your opinions with the usual respect but you know what? My method please a lot’s of people right here (even if they may look like ”no decision from coward floor” for anyone … lol!).

 GG

Posted in Fouled Hands, House Rules Different from Standard, Fouled Decks, Missing Cards, etc., Official Rules & Guidelines, General, Incorrect Pot Awards, Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc., Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Misdeals | Print | 5 Comments »

April 15, 2008 by 52cartas.

Hi TD’s:

Last weekend I had my very first important tournamet with 3 different events and more than 300 participants in total, the Marbella Classic Poker, here in Spain.

I wanted to be sure I made the right decisions by asking you…

First situation:

We are on the river. Player A bets and B calls but A doesn’t realize about it and thinks the other guy folds so he throws his cards, passing the line. Inmediately he realizes that he is still in the hand and takes back his cards. Player B complained because cards had passed the line but I gave A the chance to play the pot which was finally won by him, as I thought it was an accidental fold and he realized inmediately and cards didn’t touch the muck nor the chips. Wrong or right decission?

Second situation:

Pre-flop. Player A limps in and B goes all-in. A asks for a chip-count and the dealer counts less than the real amount so A calls and shows his cards, moving the amount declared by the dealer through the line. Player B suddenly declares that he’s got more chips and that A hasn’t complete the bet, that A has folded his cards and the pot must be won by him (he still hasn’t showed his cards). Then A says that he will complete the bet anyway, moving the rest of his chips into the middle. B continues complaining, claiming the pot and shows pocket jacks, A has pocket kings. How I proceeded: I gave the call as good declaring A winner of the pot and busting out B as he had less chips but penalized A for showing his cards out of turn. I did so because I wasn’t present at that table when all this happened and I had to ask the dealer to explain the whole situation… Wrong or right decission?

Moving players:

Can a player moved from another table, to balance them, be two hands without play? I picked him from the u.t.g. position in the original table but, the available seats on the other table were just between the big blind and the button so, to preserve the order of the original blinds in that table he had to wait two hands to play…

Deal and chops:

Does exist any program or software to calculate the deals by chips at a final table? How do you proceed with them (the deals)?

Posted in Chaos: Sloppy Mgmt of Tables & Tournament, Fouled Hands, Exposed Cards, Hand Discussion, Etc., Gross Misunderstandings, Underbets, etc, Tournament Personnel, Equipment, & Venues, Showdowns & Pot Awarding, Dealer Errors, Bad Flops, Etc., Tournament Directors, Event Structure & Management, Etiquette, Behavior, Play Procedures & Penalties, Mucking, Dead Hands, Etc, Bets, Min Raise, StringBet, Fwd Motion, Act Out-Of-Turn | Print | 5 Comments »